Getting fed up - who is with me?

[537465616C7468]

Just wanted to throw this out here and see who else feels the same way.

First of all everything we do / use now a days is because a programmer / hacker has made it happen. Yet all these big company's are paying us pennies, when we are taking to long to complete / figure out a hard task we are called lazy, when they can find someone to do the same job for cheaper they fire our ass. Meanwhile they are making millions of dollars off the products we/you create.

I don't know about the rest of you but I am really really getting sick of this. We invented these technologies, what to have the business people come in and try to take it away from us, to claim as there own. Did you hear apparently the internet is going subscription based, where you pay for a package that will give you access to a limited number of websites. (My Space, Facebook, MSN, Yahoo, Google etc...)

I say fuck them its time to take back what is rightfully ours.

What is everyone's opinion on this issue? Any suggests how we can work together to start taking back what should have been ours all along?

[Murder Mouse]

So make up your mind, am I a corporate sockpuppet or just naive?

Obviously your reading comprehension is null and void considering the fact that I brought up the treatment of BitTorrent users by Comcast as an example of why we need net neutrality. We're arguing for the same position here, the difference between you and I is that I can back up my argument by facts, while you spin some wild Orwellian story. So since you say you have done the research necessary to back up the claims to support this international plot by ISPs worldwide to make this "internet 2.0", where is it? This is a claim that not even I Power has been able to prove, but by all means if you can prove to us that what you're saying is fact then lets see it.

So where is the proof? If you can't provide it I'd suggest pushing the conspiracy theories aside, they do no good for the net neutrality movement.

Now shifting subjects here as pretty of a definition as that is, a "hacker" being an inventor with passion and all, I'd have to correct you in saying that the word "hacker" like many words in the English language has many definitions. I'd like to run some by you...

# someone who plays golf poorly
# a programmer who breaks into computer systems in order to steal or change or destroy information as a form of cyber-terrorism
# a programmer for whom computing is its own reward; may enjoy the challenge of breaking into other computers but does no harm; "true hackers subscribe to a code of ethics and look down upon crackers"
# hack: one who works hard at boring tasks
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

The Hackers (Swedish Hackare) were a race of short people who used to live in Scandinavia, according to Swedish folklore.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(folklore)

In home computing, a hacker is a person who heavily modifies the software or hardware of their computer system. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(hobbyist)

So Scandinavian midgets and bad golfers aside a hacker is nothing more than a computer geek. Of various sorts of achievements albeit, but a geek nonetheless. So despite your attempts to romanticize the title you very well are a hacker, but more than anything you're just a keyboard jockey with a couple of programming languages under his belt. Were you personally involved in the development of ARPANET? No? Then get off your high horse and join the rest of humanity.

Some of the points you do make as vague as they are are very serious issues. It's the nature of capitalism as we know it. The gain of a personal few at the exploitation of many. However your "plight", however minuet I find it is no different from the plight of most, and it would take dramatic change in the nature of our very economy to resolve these issues. However that's not your case. You don't want economic freedom for them, just yourself and your 2600 meeting buddies. Very bourgeois of you.

[537465616C7468]

Your response is pretty humours none the less. I specifically find your definition of a hacker to be of the uneducated/script kiddie, or in other words the media definition.

Aside from your “someone who plays golf poorly”. You have simply defined crackers. Nice cocky attitude front though, which I expect from a 23 year old.

Also your sort sided view on hackers only being a computer geek is incorrect. Being a hacker has nothing to do with computers, like stated in my last post a hacker can be anyone who creates sometime whether that is a painter, carpenter or a computer expert. Hacking is the process of playing, creating, and making changes to something.

So I have to ask what the hell ARPANET has to do with being a hacker. Considering there are billions of people/hackers in the word that have not touched ARPANET. Your statement is saying that if “you were not involved in making the internet, you are not a hacker”. That’s completely narrow minded considering ARPANET is only one technology which only very few people have worked with. However it is true I had nothing to do with ARPANET did you? From your point of view the developers of FreeBSD, Linux or game programmers etc are not true hackers. As to say that I am just a keyboard jockey, I will consider where this is coming from.

Now if you would have asked if I have created or helped create some advanced technology, then the answer would have been yes. I have created advanced 3D engines, AI engines, networking tools etc…. But what does that really matter?

“it would take dramatic change in the nature of our very economy to resolve these issues.” If one man can change not only a country but also affect the entire world, I am 100% positive that a group of people sharing the same believes can also. (Not to sound like a supporter but Hitler was one person who changed the world, both in a bad and a good way with innovated technology.)

I suppose you’re also correct with the statement “You don't want economic freedom for them, just yourself and your 2600 meeting buddies. Very bourgeois of you.”. This is exactly why I created this post and provided my opinion because I just want it changed for myself and my “2600 meeting buddies” seriously who the hell uses 2600 I sure in the hell don’t.

[univax]

What about the fact that Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Larry Ellison are/were all hackers in their day? They certainly are reaping the benefits of their labors aren't they?

[537465616C7468]

Well both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were more business people with the knack for hacking. However it is true they are both reaping the rewards, and deserve what they have accomplished even though most of there technologies were taking from open source free projects.

All of these people are examples of what we should be striving for.

[univax]

I dunno. I'd say they're more like hackers with good business sense.

Bill Gates and Larry Ellison also have reputations for being quite ruthless at times. Steve Jobs probably is too, but he just has better PR.

[537465616C7468]

Yeah I see your point and can't really argue with you there, they have amazing business sense.

[rvdh]

Err.. Murder Mouse was referring to 2600, aka 2600 hacking group aka the 2600 hertz a cereal whistle makes, not an Atari 2600 console. xD

[Murder Mouse]

Well besides citing my age and your purpose for starting this debate you pretty much ignored everything I just said. I wasn't making up definitions, these are accepted definitions. Hacker like any other word is just that, a word. A word with many definitions as used in the English language. If you take all the computer-related definitions in context, then what you are left with is that hacker = computer geek. There is no definition outside of your corporate bobblehead philosophy that hacker = an inventor "with passion".

However if we're going to start redefining words then grapefruit no longer means a round edible fruit. This is merely an ignorant media definition. A grapefruit is someone who uses tired old Eric Raymond-esque philosophy and conspiracy theories with no credible basis to leave a particularly steaming pile of brain excrement in threads and then bashes everyone who disagrees with his or her ideas as ignorant and "script kiddies" at a moments notice. So quit being such a grapefruit and listen for once...

I was not saying that anyone not involved with the ARPANET project wasn't a hacker. To the contrary I was saying, as stated before, that a hacker is simply a computer geek. Everyone on here outside the countless number who "forgot their hotmail password" are hackers in my opinion, because that's the only impression you can really be left with when you take all the accepted definitions as a whole. What I was stating however is that you nor anyone else here to my knowledge had any part in the creation of any of the technology we enjoy today. You are nothing special. You are nothing unique, and you deserve no more credibility than anyone else. You are simply a keyboard jockey, just a fudging programmer, and it only takes any joe blow off the street 4-8 years of schooling to know what you know.

So as I said before, I'm sure the view up there is great, but you should for once get off your ego trip long enough to join the rest of humanity. It's not all that bad down here.

[univax]

It's been said (by Douglas Adams of "Dilbert" fame, actually) that 99.99% of humans are idiots and that we really have to thank the 0.01% of the population who are geniuses for all of the technological advances that we take for granted and are able to enjoy since the beginning of time itself. Truer words never spoken.

[537465616C7468]

Point proven you are nothing but a script kiddie/wannabe, considering that your stating everyone on this site is a hacker. That’s like saying everyone who likes to look at a race car is a race car driver.

As you claim anyone can do what I do. I here and now challenge you to do what I can do, which you should not have any problem doing, well since any joe blow off the street can do what I do. Except for the fact things that I can do are not shown at school and any non-script kiddie knows this.

As for you saying that I have not had any part in the creation of any of the technology that you enjoy today is once again incorrect. For the simple fact you don't know anything about me or anyone else for that matter. The beauty about the computer is you only know what we tell you.

The major difference between you and I is I know what a hacker truly is whereas you are still a person sitting in your moms basement wishing one day to know how to write your own tools.

As for me just being “a fudging programmer” that is also incorrect. But I am sure you are unaware of the differences between a software architect and programmer so I will not even touch on that issue.

So if you are up for the challenge I want to see an Artificial Intelligent powered crawler, which will monitor any persons activity and follow them around the net reporting what they are doing. All this should be accomplished by simply providing a user name from this website. No software can be installed on the victim’s computer this is all done via a web server/home computer. The app will analyze data generated when tracking and at any given time it should be able to predict where the target is and what they are doing. No more “oh my I downloaded a tool to crack into someone’s computer”, anyone can do that. Hell I have written voice recognized software that can do that.

If you are not up for the challenge then go sit in a little corner until you finally realize what it is to be a hacker of any kind.

PS: Have fun searching for a pre scripted tool like that on the web, this task will take some creativity “True Hacking”.

[Murder Mouse]

"For the simple fact you don't know anything about me or anyone else for that matter. The beauty about the computer is you only know what we tell you."

Indeed, but yet you seem so up for making assumptions about me or my interests. So allow me to introduce myself. Hi, my name is Aaron, I'm 23 years old, majoring in journalism, and my interests are mostly in telephony (or phreaking if you prefer).

"As for me just being “a fudging programmer” that is also incorrect. But I am sure you are unaware of the differences between a software architect and programmer so I will not even touch on that issue."

Sure I do, software development like any major project is a multi-tiered endeavor, and the software architect is the chief programmer assigned to oversee the application development. Much as Bill Gates resigned himself to after retiring from his CEO position. This in no way differentiates you from any other programmer besides having more work experience. Congrats, message me your address and I'll be sure to snail mail you a box of cookies.

"As you claim anyone can do what I do. I here and now challenge you to do what I can do, which you should not have any problem doing, well since any joe blow off the street can do what I do. Except for the fact things that I can do are not shown at school and any non-script kiddie knows this."

Well apparently you have a rare case of selective attention deficit disorder, since I did after all say after 4-8 years of schooling. Give me time to attend 4 years for software programming, and then continue that with another associates specializing in AI development and I'd be fairly up to speed with you in your field. That's the path a close friend of mine is pursuing right now and he seems to be picking up on the idea rather quickly and has still resisted the temptation to tell everyone how under appreciated he is by the ignorant masses...imagine that. My point is with applied teaching in software programming and concepts then yes any joe blow off the street could do what you do. Once you understand the concept the application comes with experience.

The difference between you and I is I'm perfectly capable of humility. I never once in our little talk here claimed to be superior to you, or even your equal in your field of interest. I do however understand my humanity, in that everyone has their own knack. Their own thing. Much like I'm sure I know far more than you do about landlines, you know far more than I do about software development. I'm speaking to you from the perspective of the rest of the globe, if they ever collectively decided to give you their two cents.

So don't blame me just because the accepted definition of a "hacker" doesn't feed your ego by providing you with a label to differentiate you from the ignorant masses you loathe so much. My point still stands, you're nobody special.

[537465616C7468]

"majoring in journalism"

Enough said no need to continue wasting time with this. Considering journalist are the main causes of providing incorrect labels.